#and so what if you headcanon kabru as trans

[gothiethefairy]

anyway, back to pregnant!laios

funnily enough, the only time i see pregnant!laios fanart is from chilaios shippers. at least they get it lol

[sabertoothwalrus]

I’ve seen you post some labru stuff and I’m curious what your thoughts on it are. personally I don’t see it? I can buy Kabru having feelings for Laios, but I think Laios wouldn’t be interested in Kabru, so it makes me wonder why so many people ship them. (Tbh I feel like Kabru has more chemistry with Mithrun anyway)

Sorry if this ask sounds rude, I just genuinely don’t understand the appeal of the ship, but I want to understand and I trust your analysis of characters very much :] maybe there’s something I’m missing

I really like both ships, actually!

For labru, there’s sooooo much I could talk about. The inherent homoeroticism of being narrative foils. The inherent homoeroticism of being the king’s advisor. All of chapter 76. The fact that Kabru has mask upon mask upon mask, and Laios is the first person that made his facade absolutely crumble.

Kabru struggles with being genuine!!! Everything he says and does is so perfectly calculated, even when he sort of means it. But since Laios doesn’t get social cues, Kabru gets thrown for a loop.

I get so frustrated when people act like Kabru still hates Laios by the end of the manga!!!!! He killed those corpse retrievers for being corrupt, and yet he couldn’t bring himself to kill Laios. He has such a strong sense of justice, and knew that killing Laios would be a mistake. Because, after meeting him, he could tell he wasn’t actually evil. He’s strange, sure, but not evil.

Kabru DEFINITELY wants to be friends with Laios!! He was not lying about this!!!

But this last comic shows how much Laios wants to be friends with Kabru, too. He’s so nervous after calling Kabru his friend 😭 he doesn’t want to be presumptuous and fuck it up again.

Laios does show an interest in Kabru, at least when Laios thinks he’s interested in eating monsters too. Like,, what was up with THIS

Laios’s gaze is LINGERING. Plus, (this is before that bit at Thistle’s house when he forgets his name) he brings up Kabru when they first form their plan to eat Falin.

And maybe this is just because of my own personal experiences, but Laios reminds me a lot of my own girlfriend. I think they have a similar flavor of gay/aspec & autism combo where, had I not asked her out first, she probably never would have considered being interested in me. But she was very down when I did.

The tricky part about labru is more the political aspect. Regardless of whether you see Laios as aroace or not, he’s in a situation where he will probably get married. He had a fiancée before he was age 13, likely betrothed since he was a baby. He’s already comfortable with the idea of getting married because He’s Supposed To.

However, Laios is king, and could make gay marriage legal if he wanted to (He would probably do this for his sister and Marcille before considering it for himself ). But at the same time, I think Kabru would object to Laios making whatever policies he wants without considering the repercussions of how other kingdoms might react, especially when they’re just getting Melini off the ground and need lots of support from other countries. Laios and Kabru getting gay married anyway and dealing with the aftermath could make for a really compelling story.

I do think Kabru would be a good ruler. He’s already fit for it. He speaks a dozen languages, he knows people and their motivations, and likes politics. The manga already joked about Chilchuck’s daughters trying to marry a king, so it seems like noble blood isn’t too important, but Kabru’s foster family IS nobility. When it comes to heirs, I do like trans Kabru headcanons, but at the same time, I think it’d be cute if they adopt anyway. Kabru seems like he’d have strong feelings about adoption given,,, yknow.

The alternative version of labru to this is Laios gets straight married out of obligation, and Kabru is his mistress hdhdhshsj. I don’t know if I could see Laios doing that? or if Kabru would risk the scandal of being outed as Royal Advisor and Regent trying to seduce the king. It could go SO downhill. but maybe that would be fun.

NOW FOR KABUMISU.

I knew people shipped them, and I could see the basis for it while reading, but I wasn’t really sold on it until the very end. There’s something about “I had no desires left. I decided to create new desires, and one of them is you” that’s really charming.

There’s also something funny about “the demon ate my heterosexuality so I’m gay now”

I think it’s interesting that Kabru hates elves. He was raised by them, and he hates them. He hates feeling patronized by them. He made absolutely sure that elves wouldn’t take control over Melini, not just for his sake, but for Rin’s.

But Mithrun’s interactions with Kabru are founded on more mutual respect. Though, that’s not to say that Mithrun doesn’t still have his biases towards short lived races..

Where Laios doesn’t understand social cues, Mithrun does but just doesn’t care. For that reason, I think Kabru would enjoy spending time with Mithrun. It’d give him a break from his compulsion to calculate all of his social interactions. But at the same time, Kabru is the KING at bottling his emotions. Mithrun is blunt, but also doesn’t care enough to pry. If Kabru had anything bothering him, I could imagine him seeking Mithrun’s company to avoid thinking about it. Could make for a fun dynamic.

I do think it’s funny that Milsiril 1) took care of Mithrun for potentially 20 years and 2) is only four years older than him. I imagine this could lead to funny situations.

I don’t ship things for no reason! I think both of these could work platonically, romantically, one-sided, or even “requited but they don’t do anything about it.” Their relationships compel me and I think it’s sort of bad faith to brush off either like they’re nothing more than baseless yaoi pair-the-spares. To me, I see just as much of a foundation in the source material as farcille.

After all, dungeon meshi isn’t a story about romance, but it IS a story about love. It’s a story about life and death and grief and the love that comes with it. Regardless of shipping, these characters love each other!!! And I love talking about it!!

[busket]

irt to the last post i reblogged, it seems to be mostly anime only fans or even non fans at all that assume that the only reason people headcanon kabru as a trans man is because he's pretty, or because hes shorter or than the average tallman, or because some folks thought he was a girl at first glance. most people are not saying kabru is trans because of his appearance and I think it's really reductive and kinda disrespectful to trans men like me that have a deeper and nuanced thoughts about his backstory and relate to it.

this flashback in particular. kabru wants to go out in the world and put himself in danger for humanity. he wants to learn how to defend himself and leave his home because he can't stay coddled and protected forever. I can really relate to this, by coming out as trans we are putting ourself in more danger than we were as cis people, but it's a sacrifice we must do. not only for ourselves but for other trans people to live authentically, because the more of us there are and the more out and open we are about our identity, the safer it is for all trans people. milsilrils response here reminds me of malgendering too, being like "you want to be treated like a man? I'll treat you so much like a man that you'll realize that's not what you want." (obviously I'm not saying milsiril is transphobic lmao, it's just a similar reaction)

these panels especially feel very poignant to me. I could have stayed as a woman. I could have pretended to be cis. I would have been safer and more accepted, but I would have been miserable and trapped. I could have stayed in that room and eaten all the cake I wanted but I've never once wanted to go back there.

so yeah I really wish people would stop assuming that the only reason we have to hc kabru as trans is because of his appearance and not because we relate to his experience or whatever! it's not like trans men are capable of analyzing media and picking out themes and character traits that resonate with us, clearly we just see the skinny shortish boy and claim him for no meaningful reasons 🙄

[roomba-mangga]

aspec headcanon nuances for dunmeshi because they're all fascinating

laios - aroace. sexuality is closely entwined with his monster fixation but more of an extension of fascination than actual teratophilia because big same. can't distinguish between platonic and romantic so he can get it alterously. he's more family-oriented than anything. situationship/qpr city over here.

falin - sapphic aro/aroace. comfortable with her sexuality and aromanticism, minimal confusion or angst there, but she's aware of how she doesn't mesh with standard cultural understandings of love/sex and feels that weight at times. she is what she is and does what she does, though—whatever that may be. post-canon, she becomes an in-universe shared aspec/sapphic icon (like artemis) and is the reason dragons are an aspec symbol

marcille - lesbian, not aspec at all, but being in a situationship with the above two is an absolute trip. fairly clueless/repressed about herself atm so ironically it would be up to falin to take the reins there if ever. (funny option: laios breaks it to her no holds barred by using like, lesbian lizard sex as a comparison). navigating the ups and downs of being family/partnered with aspec people 💕

senshi - vanilla ace, possibly aro(spec) too but i can easily see him being alloace. possibly has issues over his orientation being one of those things that renders him unmasculine by dwarven standards.

chilchuck - aro bi family man. has internalized arophobia + biphobia double whammy to work through on that front. cares too much and vilifies himself to an extent but can't confront it.

izutsumi - aroace, may or may not be due to trauma. gray-aspec because of her cat side lmao. she can worry about growing up first.

kabru - can be anything but settling on aroallo as default headcanon, though ace!kabru is utterly delicious character exploration wise. the neurodivergent aspec feeling of "sexuality/romanticism as a form of masking and a supposed means to an end" and all the complications that brings.

mithrun - can be anything, leaning towards alloace. ripe for explorations on how being aspec intersects with trauma, disability, and privilege. get it cunty white dude

thistle - Trans Aromantic Trauma Baby of all time because i relate to him beat for beat and i said so. whereas izutsumi is a traumatized kid who happens to be aroace, thistle embodies aro poc specific trauma to a tee. absolutely fascinating grounds to explore dysfunctional attachment, perceptions of family, and severe mental illness as a young aro person.

yaad - vanilla aroace. maybe it gets a little weird because having someone else's body does that to a person (you know how transitioning can mess with you?) but otherwise standard fare. religious nuance. happy community-oriented old person rep.

[laikabu]

okay trans allegory aside the bit about Kabru's name being unknown is definitely referring to his last name. I def don't wanna rain on your parade for the trans coding stuff! That part's fine but every time this gets mentioned it makes people think that Kabru isn't his real name. But the part in the bible where it says unknown for Kabru is the same place other characters' "full" names go which include their surnames/noble houses. I think the wording of the book is just confusing to be fair. Kabru's is like that probably because his mother was disowned when he was born so he had no family name. Thistle's "real name" is actually unknown and the bible makes a difference between that and Kabru's. Again I think using it for trans headcanons is fun and fine but people are really getting confused over something that's not true. And since Kabru's name is one of the few overtly SE Asian-coded things about him I think it's important people know what's canon. Okay thank you sorry for rambling if this was your intention!

oh yeah i deleted it for posterity’s sake, but i just thought it was funny that things line up

i was just under the impression it was fake because he’s the only character named after a real life place. i’m sure it has a diegetic reason but his name is just so peculiar, none of the other characters are named like this. and it’s not unlike kui to give characters completely different names and never explain it. for example, kuro’s actual name is yodan, even though it had no place in the story, and it’s unknown whether mickbell gave him the new name or he chose it for himself at some point

izutsumi, doni and all of shuro’s retainers were never given a last name, but their names are still there in the ‘true name’ section

thistle was the only one with an explanation because his name is a common language name rather than an elvish one.

if kabru’s birth name is really kabru, they’d just put ‘kabru’ in the real name section. it has been proven before that you don’t need a surname, and i think it was left intentionally vague to fit his mysterious/closed off self. you could infer that he simply doesn’t want you to know.

i guess it’s my fault for not elaborating though. i’d like to know your thoughts after reading this. sorry it got too long

also it’s south asia not SE asia

edit: adding onto this, it doesn’t even have to be related to him being trans. it could be his mother gave him a new name for safety reasons when she ran away from their family, it’s just really convenient that it’s a very unisex name

[busket]

i agree with many aspects of this post; trans men should not always be depicted as small and effeminate, more variety of characters should be headcanoned and represented as trans, but as a trans man and a long time dungeon meshi fan, also disagree with a lot of what you said here

first of all, in canon, kabru is not particularly effeminate. he's a playboy, he's a schemer, he's a fighter. he might be stronger than laios, but he fails in the dungeon due to his lack of knowledge about monsters. he knows how to quickly take down human opponents. he lives in the basement of a pub and his room is a mess. he forgets to feed himself so hes kinda lanky. he loves politics and history and sociology. nothing about him is particularly feminine, those are all very unisex traits, nudging closer to the masculine side imo. People haven't picked out kabru from the cast and made him trans be he's more girly, because he's not. ive been reading dungeon meshi since 2017 and personally I started headcanoning kabru as trans when I read his flashback about being a child under milsilrils care. the themes of wanting to be useful, wanting to fight and explore but being coddled and overprotected by his adoptive mother was relatable as a trans man. People I've seen headcanon him as trans are the same, they are other trans men that relate to kabrus character.

Secondly, fandom is not representation. you don't need to make your choices about what headcanons and ships you like based on what would be good representation in the world. trans men do need representation of masculine men, but headcanoning is not where we find that. headcanoning is saying "I really like and relate to this character, I wish he was like me". and in a fandom for an anime of majority young people, the trans masc fans are going to be young and early in our transitions and looking for characters that more closely fit our lived experiences.

your assumptions makes it seem like fans are like "let's see, I need to headcanon one of these characters as transmasculine to fill my quota.. I know! I'll pick the effeminate one to be a trans man!" if this were the case, why is trans masc mithrun not more popular? or lycion? all the elf men are so visually feminine that the official translation didn't know they were men until the author confirmed their pronouns. mithrun was given they/them pronouns for much of the mangas run.

Thirdly, just because something brings you dysphoria doesn't mean it's bad. I've drawn art of kabru with breasts, I've designed fankids with him and laios for fun. and you know what? I've had so many other trans men tell me "thank you for drawing him like this. I'm a trans man that can't have top surgery and I never see people loving our bodies like this" or "I'm a trans man that's gotten pregnant and had kids, seeing you draw art of kabru being a father feels so wonderful". keep in mind that trans men are also expected to preform a higher degree of masculinity than cis men to be respected; and many of us feel a longing to reclaim and celebrate parts of our feminine identities. we are allowed to have breasts and children and still be respected as men.

it's true that trans senshi laios and chilchuck is more uncommon, but personally I see it pretty often?? at least the latter two. you said you don't even like the show in your tags, which tells me youve only seen the surface of the fandom, only whats the most popular. so like.....why nitpick what trans men are doing to have fun in a fandom that you're not even a part of? from a media you haven't fully consumed and make assumptions about the content and fans of the story?

I get kind of dysphoric seeing Kabru being the only one to get depicted as a trans man in all the dungimeshi fanart, he is short, effeminate, cunty- its weird, why is your first assumption the feminine short man is trans? What exactly do you think is inherent to the afab body that makes it such a immedianet thought?

You cant really ..tell queers just by looking at someone.

Why is it never Laios or Senshi? Its uncommon to see transmasc art of them, and i know why that is.

Theyre "traditionally masculine"

Which isnt true entirely, Senshi was described as effeminate for a dwarf, but he adheres to Our standards of masculinity, so he doesnt appeal to the inherent idea people have of trans men- and people think trans men are women.

So. Yknow. Think before you trans i guess. Youre actually perpetuating some bad ideas by not having any range in your depiction of transgender men.

If you only ever draw short, cunty, pretty, effeminate, snappy yet subby men as transgender men...

You...are doing a poor job at spreading transmasc positivity.

Even if you yourself are transmasc you are still susceptible to perpetuating the idea that trans men are inherently weaker, softer and more feminine compared to cisgender men.

Yes gnc trans men exist, its important to depict those in art aswell, but unique gender presentation doesnt equate to your personality.

The problem with trans Kabru is all the art im seeing of him "mothering" Laios' children, taking on a "female" role in the ship art, adhering to a status quo because of his vagina..

There is just a lot of shitfuckery and i think you need to give it more thought before deciding the femmy subby man is a transgender man.

And i've NEVER seen a transfem Kabru- oh but everyone LOVES transfem Laios, theres probably more to unpack about transfem Laios being so prevalent but its not my place to do so.

[busket]

this is silly but I get honestly a little mad when people are like "I'm disappointed kabru isn't a girl :///" because to me he is just so blatantly a trans man so when people say that I'm like. what do you mean by that, huh??? you don't think he's a real man?? go on and say it......and I realize this is projection of the highest order but this headcanon is so deeply ingrained it counts as real representation to me now lol

[addedsugars]

i usually dont reblog stuff like this with comments but the replies wasnt giving me enough space and leaving multiple replies makes me feel like a freak. im gonna try and keep this vague since i assume youre an anime only! there might be some spoilerly info but im not gonna just say full arc endings or anything. correct me if wrong about the anime only thing though!

1. farcille isn't technically canon but can be read as heavily implied, and seeing as dunmeshi is an overwhelmly queer Fandom we just accept it. im pretty sure the author leaves it purposefully vague but thats just how i see it. a large amount of the story is spent talking about their relationship so why not. ships have become fanon for less.

2. labru is one of the ships based on character foil dynamics. they're characters inherently tied together by the end of the story and end up relying heavily on each other and are different yet the same in so many ways... like even if they aren't romantically together most labru shippers I know love to talk about the PARALLELS . bitches love a good parallel and in many ways that's just what labru as a pairing is made for. even their appearances could be read as opposites, they technically could fit a sun and moon anesthetics there's just a lot to love there.

3. I'm a passive kabru enjoyer so you'll need to ask an active one for more details but I think part of trans masc kabru is just, a lot of Trans masc people seeing themself in him. another big part of it is what from what I've seen is, kabru is not his real name, or at least the one he was given at birth. could be seen as a Trans thing. kabru is seen to dress and appear somewhat androgynously as a child so it can be easy to say he was Trans. from the way kabru was raised with elven culture being so light with the differences between feminine and masculine it would be easy for him to transition.

I think the biggest factor Is Queer people like Queer headcanons.

4. I didn't know chilshi was seen as freaky? yeah Senshi sees chilchuck as a kid for the first part but that's mostly player for laughs and is a thing of ignorance on senshis part. it's like mistaking someone who's short and has a baby face as a teen irl. after being corrected that senshi is shown to be able to like, acknowledge chilchuck as an adult and his equal, at least to my memory.

even though chilchuck is still married it's left sorta vague even post canon if he ever got in contact with his wife again? like yeah he clearly still cares about her, but he hasn't spoken to her directly in years and the conception of their marriage can also be read as Rocky since chilchuck married so young. like he married at the half foot equivalent of 17 after his first kid was born and now he's pretty much middle aged. with all of that + their lack of contact most assume they'll just get officially separated especially since they've been so unofficially for years. it's fine if you wanna see them getting back together! a lot of people do but there's no canon evidence for that so it's hard to read it as homerecker-y to me especially since all of chilchucks kids are grown.

I think a big part of the ship is actually senshi and chilchuck having a similar status in the friend group, both being older men and both taking an almost parental role in certain situations. in chilchuck's case it mostly comes out in comedic situations but its easy to see how chilchuck could be described as generally acting fatherly. senshi can also easily be described as motherly with the way he takes care of the party members. this especially comes out from both of them when taking care of izutsumi. it's like w thing among chilshi shippers that they are basically just izu's adoptive mom and dad and I personally find that hard not to see. it's basically like shipping your mommy and daddy together.

ALSO ONCE AGAIN PARALLELS OMG THE PARALLELS. CHILCHUCKS DISTRUST TOWARDS DUNGEONS VS SENSHIS ACCEPTANCE OF THEM. THE IMPORTANCE SENSHI HOLDS IN SELFCARE ESPECIALLY FOR THE SAKE OF OTHERS VS CHILCHUCKS MASSIVE SELF NEGLECT ALSO STARTED ORIGINALLY FOR THE SAKE OF OTHERS.

uuuh sorry for talking about chilshi for 4 paragraphs I'm biased.

Questions for the dungeon meshi fans about ✨️fandom ships✨️ (and other stuff):

1) falin×marcille are cannon, like, it's obvious falin have feelings, same for marcille but she's oblivious. HOwEVeRe, how is Laios and kabru a thing ? I agree they are cute, and its tempting, but except the friendship confession, nothing really scream "lovers vibe". A need proofs guys. Why?

2) Alsoooo why is Kabru trans in the fandom ?

It's a real question.

What is the brain process ? 🔵 🫦🔵

3) finally.... guys..... senshi and chilchuck 😦😧... some of you are freaky

Chilchuck is a dad still in love with his wife (you bunch of homewrecker!!) And Senshi thought for half the season that Chilchuck was a KID 🥲

Nope. I dissociated with this. I don't like this.

I need answers.....